ROUGH COPY:
20140506 Tuesday @ 12:08 hrz [Zulu]:
Welcome to the English Chat Room, the place to chat.
....democracy: better still can live without war and prisons?
democracy: and drugs
democracy: or it is not even considered
IIIllIIll0: obama is achieving repeal of the magna carta and sending anonymous death robots to shoot missles from the sky at people we think are guilty of anti american speech
democracy: country is not run by Obama and Bush, the U.S. controlled corporations
omggg: well, since man has been fighting for various things since he has been on the planet, I can't see then being eliminated completley. and many resources are becoming more scarse
democracy: there is absolutely no difference between Republicans or Democrats
omggg: then = that*
mabblebrox: no we'll need drugs for the revolution
democracy: buried Ukraine
democracy: United Ukraine?
democracy: There are not separatists and terrorists, there is Russian and Ukrainians who love Russia, not Europe
womack: http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/05/john-w-whitehead/is-america-becoming-the-new-third-reich/
womack: USA has been run by Jewish-controlled secret police since 1935 when Bernard Baruch successfully assassinated Senator Huey P. Long.
womack: With the assassination in 1963 of President John Kennedy, the Sons Of The Stern gang or SOTSies pulled off the biggest kosher coup d'etat in all history.
ergodicgo: will the people who don't buy healthcare have to wear identifying armbands?
RoadHobo: tattoo on the forearm
omggg: if you are gonna go with Conspiracy theories then I'd have to go with alien mind control
womack: The biggest benefit of the 9/11/2001 Stunt produced by KinkHenKi & Aerial Shaboom was that the overplay forced us finally to review the much subtler Jack whack.
womack: Probably true as far as omggg goes?
RoadHobo: wow, I totally didn't understand that comment womack
womack: U mean the last little dig there, RH?
RoadHobo: no, the kinkHenKi and Jack whack part
womack: Can U take a mo & read "KinkHenKi " ?
RoadHobo: I don't even know what that is
womack: I'll give you a few more minutes to try. Ordinary talent with modest application should solve both references IMHO.
demodemo: http://www.usdebtclock.org that's the biggest problem the U.S. that must be addressed. everything else is heresy
demodemo: and to solve this problem should not due to the revolution in the Third World
womack: W/o even lookinhg yet, I know that the clock omits US liability for wrongful deaths caused by wars of aggresssion since 1945.
womack: Which comes to a truly astronomical figure.
EasyCoder: I think we can all agree that wrongful deaths caused by wars of aggression are "bad"
EasyCoder: Let's all agree to abstain from such war crimes, okay?
womack: Also EC, they are torts which imply both criminal & civil exposure.
womack: EC's sarcasm will be more easily accomplished after we punish current war crimes.
womack: "We" being our human race under some revolutionary new global organization IMHO.
demodemo: Yes, a few world powers and it will be a new global system
EasyCoder: For example, if Hitler's "Holocaust" of 6 million Jews and millions of others was "bad", how about Stalin and Mao who each killed over 60 million?
womack: I absolutely agree uniformly to apply the law against aggressive war.
omggg: ED, standard of what, moral, economic?
omggg: EC
womack: Which law we laid down only in 1945 at Nuremberg via the International Military Tribunal.
EasyCoder: Standard of right and wrong
omggg: is that possible?
womack: The charges against Mao look highly suspect & tendentious, intended to excuse the real crimes favored & executed by the Sulzbergerz kabal.
EasyCoder: My definition of "evil" is rather simple: taking advantage of another person for my own benefit is "wrong" (or "evil")
EasyCoder: @womack my source is Le Figaro magazine
Bloke: Stalin killed 20 million not 60 million
omggg: I mean, people from one house to another have different moral standards
Bloke: Such ignorance
omggg: and they live in the same culture
RoadHobo: still don't get KinkHenKi
womack: EC I am familiar w the standard charges from the camp of the Jewish-American Planetary Empire or "JAPE".
demodemo: The Soviet Union denounced the cult of personality of Stalin and Putin also repeated it. What else should make Russian?
EasyCoder: You can also look up R. Rummel, but the point is not to point out WHO is wrong but WHAT is wrong.
womack: Can anyone help out RH?
EasyCoder: I don't support factions; I follow principles.
demodemo: Destroy their country for NATO?
RoadHobo: the only references google finds are more comments by you
omggg: please enlighten us Bloke
womack: Hint = read "King"
RoadHobo: why be so cryptic?
RoadHobo: I believe in saying what you mean
womack: OK, since all keep silent, I'll give a big hint "Who's kissing 'er now?"
womack: Does RH at least comprehend the "Aerial Shaboom" reference?
RoadHobo: sure
womack: Honto.
RoadHobo: and I know, in essence, what you are saying, but again I don't understand the veil you shroud it in
womack: First I came up w "A Shaboom" and was extremely pleased w that tag.
womack: To find a hook for Henry took several more yrs.
EasyCoder: Can we agree on a standard of good and evil+
RoadHobo: say what you mean, mean what you say, and stand by your words.
ergodicgo: its reading like james joyce's" finnegan's wake"
demodemo: if each nation will have its planet in the universe, then there will be peace at last?
RoadHobo: nope, they'll fight over the moons
EasyCoder: Do not engage in trade unless it is mutually beneficial.
womack: Whoa, thx 2 ergod and maybe RH has his [?] hat on too tight?
RoadHobo: are you baiting me womack, because we are on the same page and I don't see the need to antagonize me
womack: EC's "trade" remark recalls KinkHenKi's 9/11/1973 coup d'etat against Chile & the rerobbery of the copper there.
womack: RH 1) many of us here play baduk 2) I of course agree w the obvious principles U declare but find your insinuations presumptuous, to say the least.
womack: pls excuse my clumsy typing BTW
RoadHobo: huh. well, you are a strange one, I'll give you that.
RoadHobo: I play too, just not on my chatty account
womack: Has been said before
EasyCoder: All I'm saying is to have one standard for all nations (i.e., avoid hypocrisy).
demodemo: Yes, a few world powers and it will be a new global system
EasyCoder: For example, if Hitler's "Holocaust" of 6 million Jews and millions of others was "bad", how about Stalin and Mao who each killed over 60 million?
womack: I absolutely agree uniformly to apply the law against aggressive war.
omggg: ED, standard of what, moral, economic?
omggg: EC
womack: Which law we laid down only in 1945 at Nuremberg via the International Military Tribunal.
EasyCoder: Standard of right and wrong
omggg: is that possible?
womack: The charges against Mao look highly suspect & tendentious, intended to excuse the real crimes favored & executed by the Sulzbergerz' kabal.
EasyCoder: My definition of "evil" is rather simple: taking advantage of another person for my own benefit is "wrong" (or "evil")
EasyCoder: @womack my source is Le Figaro magazine
Bloke: Stalin killed 20 million not 60 million
omggg: I mean, people from one house to another have different moral standards
Bloke: Such ignorance
omggg: and they live in the same culture
RoadHobo: still don't get KinkHenKi
womack: EC I am familiar w the standard charges from the camp of the Jewish-American Planetary Empire or "JAPE".
demodemo: The Soviet Union denounced the cult of personality of Stalin and Putin also repeated it. What else should make Russian?
EasyCoder: You can also look up R. Rummel, but the point is not to point out WHO is wrong but WHAT is wrong.
womack: Can anyone help out RH?
EasyCoder: I don't support factions; I follow principles.
demodemo: Destroy their country for NATO?
RoadHobo: the only references google finds are more comments by you
omggg: please enlighten us Bloke
womack: Hint = read "King".
RoadHobo: why be so cryptic?
RoadHobo: I believe in saying what you mean
womack: OK, since all keep silent, I'll give a big hint "Who's kissing 'er now?"
womack: Does RH at least comprehend the "Aerial Shaboom" reference?
RoadHobo: sure
womack: Honto.
RoadHobo: and I know, in essence, what you are saying, but again I don't understand the veil you shroud it in
womack: First I came up w A Shaboom and was extremely pleased w that tag.
womack: To find a hook for Henry took several more yrs.
EasyCoder: Can we agree on a standard of good and evil+
RoadHobo: say what you mean, mean what you say, and stand by your words.
ergodicgo: its reading like james joyce's" finnegan's wake"
demodemo: if each nation will have its planet in the universe, then there will be peace at last?
RoadHobo: nope, they'll fight over the moons
EasyCoder: Do not engage in trade unless it is mutually beneficial.
womack: Whoa, thx 2 ergod and maybe RH has his [?] hat on too tight?
RoadHobo: are you baiting me womack, because we are on the same page and I don't see the need to antagonize me
womack: EC's "trade" remark recalls KinkHenKi's 9/11/1973 coup d'etat against Chile & the rerobbery of the copper there.
womack: RH 1) many of us here play baduk 2) I of course agree w the obvious principles U declare but find your insuations presumptuous, to say the least
womack: pls excuse my clumsy typing BTW
RoadHobo: huh. well, you are a strange one, I'll give you that.
RoadHobo: I play too, just not on my chatty account
womack: Has been said before
ergodicgo: $4 for a loaf of jewish rye at wal-mart....maybe it is a conspiracy!
womack: Dollar teetering on the toilet?
demodemo: Dollar falls into the abyss
womack: We all agree that "conspiracy" means any concealed & coordinated crime, rt?
ergodicgo: oh wait, i bought it at TARGET
RoadHobo: when the president does it, it's not a crime
RoadHobo: lol
womack: How many here now in our ECR wish to declare their belief that in 1963 Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone to kill JFK?
womack: A rather sensitive point there, eh what, RH?
EasyCoder: KinkHenKi is "kink" Henry Kissinger?
womack: The standard corrupt proverb = "The crime is getting caught at it."
womack: Check there EC
EasyCoder: Chile was saved from from a left-wing coup by Augusto Pinochet and is now a democracy.
womack: I have long dubbed HK the 3rd King of the Jews, after Bernard Baruch and Judah P. Benjamin
EasyCoder: The good thing about democracy is that it preserves human rights.
EasyCoder: Dictatorships and communist countries place human rights second
EasyCoder: Ironically several of them tag themselves as "people's democratic republics" but this is camouflauge
EasyCoder: Such countries are the world human rights violators
womack: Looks hard for EC to escape from whatever US military or spook cage it's in
EasyCoder: It would not be wise to create a global government with human rights violators in charge.
RoadHobo: it would not be wise to create a global gvernment at all
omggg: right
EasyCoder: And as Rummel points out, democracies hardly ever wage war against each other.
womack: Rudolp, rt?
EasyCoder: Even on a local level, I don't want some committee telling me what price I must pay for goods and services; that should be a private matter, between me and the other party.
RoadHobo: EC, that's because democracies are owned by big business and it's not good business to destroy your holdings
womack: EC has the accent of criminal privilege
EasyCoder: R.J. Rummel http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/LONGVITA.HTM
EasyCoder: It's true, womack, many of my ancestors were criminals.
womack: For EC treason & murder = essence of "democracy": EasyCoder: Chile was saved from from a left-wing coup by Augusto Pinochet and is now a democracy.
womack: EC Aussie?
omggg: Ad hominem ?
womack: Mere logic?
Bloke: The current Chinese government is not a democracy but it has done huge good in raising many millions out of poverty
EasyCoder: Which part of the 1973 Chile coup do you object to? The fact that it prevented a left-wing dictatorship from coming to power?
Bloke: I know it's done bad things too but any fair observer must recognise the good it has done
Bloke: You are hopelessly ignorant EasyCoder
EasyCoder: If the left were as wonderful as its fans keep saying, then people wouldn't risk death to escape from leftist dictatorships such as Cuba, Vietnam, North Korea, East Germany, etc.
Bloke: Allende was democratically elected in 1970
womack: The US State Dept sent me to Chile in 1964 & '65. Salvador Allende was duly elected President in 1970 as the whole world knows, except for EC, whomever it may be
EasyCoder: Thanks for resorting to ad hominem, Bloke. It lets me know that you realize your argments don't hold water
Bloke: Pinochet was the dictator in Chile not Allende
womack: There's a saying EC has yet to hear about "standing up like a man"
Bloke: For nearly 20 years
Bloke: Mass excutions and torture
EasyCoder: @Bloke I said "1973 Chile coup" - implying that Pinochet _overthrew_ the government.
Warfreak2: calling any insult an "ad hominem" is actually ad hominem
EasyCoder: Allende only had a plurality, anyway.
Warfreak2: you're saying his logic is unsound because he insulted you
EasyCoder: Unlike other dictators, Pinochet (1) made his promised reforms and (2) allowed elections which resulted in the people choosing someone else.
EasyCoder: Is it the reforms that really bother you, or what?
Warfreak2: "[what you say is wrong therefore] you are ignorant" isn't ad hominem, but "you are ignorant therefore what you say is wrong" would be
Warfreak2: i don't think you understand what ad hominem is
omggg: attack on a person's character
Warfreak2: no, it isn't
Bloke: When did Pinochet allow elections? After nearly 20 years of dictatorship
EasyCoder: womack, whether 1/3 of the electorate counts as "duly elected" is debatable - but I still call Pinochet's assumption of power a "coup" because he was not elected.
womack: Whereas the nameless "EC" applauds mass murder, law-abiding & -enforcing folk mean to punish it
Warfreak2: ad hominem means you dismiss somebody's argument /because of/ their character
EasyCoder: Whether he did this to "take advantage of others for his own benefit" is the standard by which he should be judged.
Warfreak2: dismissing somebody's character because of their argument is not ad hominem at all
demodemo: I was born in the USSR, and I was happy there. What do you have against the Left?
omggg: You attacked your opponent's character or personal traits in an attempt to undermine their argument.
EasyCoder: womack, thanks for putting words in my mouth - a clear indication that you have run out of facts and logic
EasyCoder: @Block, Pinochet worried that Allende would become a leftist dictator (like Castro) so he threw him out, made reforms, and stepped down. What's wrong with that?
womack: EC itself praises a brazen mass murderer, then complains that I am "putting words" in its mouth
Warfreak2: welcome to the ECR, where the ignorant fight the inept and both sides lose
womack: warf has somewhere else to recommend?
Bloke: Pinochet took power by a coup in 1973. Next election in Chile was 1990.
RoadHobo: womack has a knack for alienating people
RoadHobo: is that a marketable skill?
EasyCoder: @Warf, I'm saying that his insult is ad hominem - funny how you keep misunderstanding - I assume it's deliberate.
Bloke: Another idiot censored
omggg: haha
EasyCoder: @ergo, Milton Friedman supported Pinochet for several sound reasons.
womack: Some people commit war crimes & get fussy when called to account
Warfreak2: womack has a knack for being an unredeemable pimple on humanity's backside
demodemo: The USSR had a low crime rate, high literacy rates, free education also a lot a lot of good.
Bloke: No point in debating with an ignoramus like EasyCraphead
demodemo: free medicine
womack: )
ergodicgo: but i still cant buy coca leaf to chew from chile
omggg: now now children
EasyCoder: @Bloke: When did Castro allow elections, after 45 years of dictatorship and murder? Or never?
ergodicgo: how is that a free market?
Warfreak2: a free market doesn't mean nothing is against the law
womack: US elections sham or genuine?
Warfreak2: you are confusing capitalism with anarchy
EasyCoder: @womack, if I saw evidence that Pinochet was a mass murderer, I would alter my description of his coup's results.
ergodicgo: someone wants to sell, i want to buy , someone else says we cant transact....
RoadHobo: demodemo: I used to argue with my frind from The Chezch Republic because he claimed he came to Canada for freedom, but he had a free education from the soviets. If he lived in Canada he would've been hopelessly in debt like me for my education.
womack: There's a stadium EC might want to visit & there listen to some tapes by the famous Chilean singer Victor Jara
EasyCoder: As it is, the "disappearance" of 3,000 people has not been shown to be mass murder. They might have been armed revolutionaries trying to overthrow the coup. Not the same as prisoners or non-combatants; but I don't know.
Warfreak2: you aren't allowed coca leaves whether you buy them or grow them
RoadHobo: demodemo: I could never understand what freedom he was talking about
womack: Unless one's in Bolivia
EasyCoder: USSR had a high crime rate if you count crime committed by the ruling class.
demodemo: a lot of people have been trained in the Soviet Union are now working on microsoft, etc.
RoadHobo: his education was second to none
EasyCoder: Didn't someone recently mention "mass murder" as a bad thing? How can you be a fussy pimple about 3,000 debatable deaths and ignore millions of deliberate governmental murders by Stalin?
womack: EC lives in shameless denial of obvious facts
ergodicgo: mark twain (samuel clemens) planned an enterprise to import coca from south america and sell to the plantations along the mississippi river
womack: Mark gets better & better
ergodicgo: it was to make the slaves more productive
EasyCoder: @Bloke, please give me more insults, it shows how weak you realize your arguments are compared to facts and logic. More, more! :-)
womack: after 1865?
ergodicgo: miners in SA still chew it, its also good for the teeth
Warfreak2: there you go, you aren't allowed slaves either, is that a failure of the free market?
demodemo: EC, the Soviet Union has apologized to the world for Stalin under Khrushchev!
EasyCoder: @womack, if there are any facts I've overlooked, kindly bring them to my attention. Thank you.
demodemo: How long can you live in the Cold War
Warfreak2: you aren't allowed to trade something that you aren't allowed to own, that is not a problem with the market
womack: EC quite pathetic. The Georgian Stalin fronted for a Jewish kabal in the USSR. "Communism" a big bag containing radically different critters
womack: Probably even WIKI on Chile would serve to educate EC?
EasyCoder: Abolition of slavery is a free market initiative.
EasyCoder: Stealing someone's labor is exploitative.
womack: Slave market was free, eh?
EasyCoder: Left-wing dictatorships thrive on other people's labor, a form of slavery.
EasyCoder: The 'slave market' was not a "free market" thing.
EasyCoder: That's why free market advocates banded together to abolish the slave trade and slavery.
RoadHobo: Nearly everyone everywhere lives off someone else's labour.
EasyCoder: Duh! Workers should be allowed to sell their own labor - not be forced to provide a living for someone else.
EasyCoder: * leftists kick up a fuss, even when their opponents AGREE with them, lol!
RoadHobo: so everyone should be a prostitute instead of having everyone take care of each other?
ergodicgo: and i should be free to choose whose labor i exchange for mine
demodemo: Socialism is bad, capitalism also failed. Which system the world needs?
womack: Since 1945 the USGov under Jewish domination has murdered about 30,000,000 [thirty million] victims worldwide
RoadHobo: A benevolent King
EasyCoder: @demo, good for the former USSR: that they apologized for Stalin's mass murders. I heard that chairman Gorbachev actually even resigned one Christmas Day, back in the early 1990s.
womack: DD our world needs --rt RH! or Queen-
RoadHobo: We need a benevolent King to take care of us.
EasyCoder: lol @ womack, I wrote the original Wikipedia article on the 1973 Chile coup, and all agreed it was a masterpiece of objective prose.
EasyCoder: i mean, a model of the Neutral Point of View
demodemo: Maybe you forgot about the genocide of Indians and black slaves?
womack: Was that before or after EC wrote WAR AND PEACE & the Bible?
demodemo: Good capitalism
EasyCoder: @demo, those failures of early American democracy are always on my mind.
EasyCoder: lol @womack, that's like saying that Jesus is the Creator, even though he was born in 4 B.C.
EasyCoder: Democracy and capitalism are imperfect systems, which
EasyCoder: ... cannot work properly unless men of good character make them work.
EasyCoder: I prefer to pick the Lesser of Two Evils, whenever I have a chance.
womack: OK EC claims true name of "ED Poor"
EasyCoder: lowercase 'd', please
womack: Already: womack: pls excuse my clumsy typing BTW
EasyCoder: @demodemo, democracy and free market economics have brought more freedom and prosperity into the world than socialism and totalitarian dictatorships.
EasyCoder: Thanks, womack. Good excuse.
EasyCoder: Well, I've already given a good excuse for Pinochet. What's your excuse for the Cambodian genocide?
EasyCoder: @RH, no one should be a prostitute.
EasyCoder: No one should be *forced* to take care of anyone else.
EasyCoder: It should be a matter of free choice.
womack: Evidently our Ed Poor is somehow on JAPE's tit & makes his thinking fit
EasyCoder: nice rhyme: tit and fit
womack: pertinent fact as well ?
EasyCoder: @Bloke, please give me more insults, it shows how weak you realize your arguments are compared to facts and logic. More, more! :-)
womack: after 1865?
ergodicgo: miners in SA still chew it, its also good for the teeth
Warfreak2: there you go, you aren't allowed slaves either, is that a failure of the free market?
demodemo: EC, the Soviet Union has apologized to the world for Stalin under Khrushchev!
EasyCoder: @womack, if there are any facts I've overlooked, kindly bring them to my attention. Thank you.
demodemo: How long can you live in the Cold War
Warfreak2: you aren't allowed to trade something that you aren't allowed to own, that is not a problem with the market
womack: EC quite pathetic. The Georgian Stalin fronted for a Jewish kabal in the USSR. "Communism" a big bag containing radically different critters
womack: Probably even WIKI on Chile would serve to educate EC?
EasyCoder: Abolition of slavery is a free market initiative.
EasyCoder: Stealing someone's labor is exploitative.
womack: Slave market was free, eh?
EasyCoder: Left-wing dictatorships thrive on other people's labor, a form of slavery.
EasyCoder: The 'slave market' was not a "free market" thing.
EasyCoder: That's why free market advocates banded together to abolish the slave trade and slavery.
RoadHobo: Nearly everyone everywhere lives off someone else's labour.
EasyCoder: Duh! Workers should be allowed to sell their own labor - not be forced to provide a living for someone else.
EasyCoder: * leftists kick up a fuss, even when their opponents AGREE with them, lol!
RoadHobo: so everyone should be a prostitute instead of having everyone take care of each other?
ergodicgo: and i should be free to choose whose labor i exchange for mine
demodemo: Socialism is bad, capitalism also failed. Which system the world needs?
womack: Since 1945 the USGov under Jewish domination has murdered about 30,000,000 [thirty million] victims worldwide
RoadHobo: A benevolent King
EasyCoder: @demo, good for the former USSR: that they apologized for Stalin's mass murders. I heard that chairman Gorbachev actually even resigned one Christmas Day, back in the early 1990s.
womack: DD our world needs --rt RH! or Queen-
RoadHobo: We need a benevolent King to take care of us.
EasyCoder: lol @ womack, I wrote the original Wikipedia article on the 1973 Chile coup, and all agreed it was a masterpiece of objective prose.
EasyCoder: i mean, a model of the Neutral Point of View
demodemo: Maybe you forgot about the genocide of Indians and black slaves?
womack: Was that before or after EC wrote WAR AND PEACE & the Bible?
demodemo: Good capitalism
EasyCoder: @demo, those failures of early American democracy are always on my mind.
EasyCoder: lol @womack, that's like saying that Jesus is the Creator, even though he was born in 4 B.C.
EasyCoder: Democracy and capitalism are imperfect systems, which
EasyCoder: ... cannot work properly unless men of good character make them work.
EasyCoder: I prefer to pick the Lesser of Two Evils, whenever I have a chance.
womack: OK EC claims true name of "ED Poor"
EasyCoder: lowercase 'd', please
womack: Already: womack: pls excuse my clumsy typing BTW
EasyCoder: @demodemo, democracy and free market economics have brought more freedom and prosperity into the world than socialism and totalitarian dictatorships.
EasyCoder: Thanks, womack. Good excuse.
EasyCoder: Well, I've already given a good excuse for Pinochet. What's your excuse for the Cambodian genocide?
EasyCoder: @RH, no one should be a prostitute.
EasyCoder: No one should be *forced* to take care of anyone else.
EasyCoder: It should be a matter of free choice.
womack: Evidently our Ed Poor is somehow on JAPE's tit & makes his thinking fit
EasyCoder: nice rhyme: tit and fit
womack: pertinent fact as well ?
EasyCoder: Rather than a personal attack / I'd like to hear some truth from friend Womack!
womack: Does Ed know truth when it bites him on the ass, as the saying goes?
EasyCoder: A benevolent king would be nice to have, but finding someone to take the job is going to be a problem.
EasyCoder: Power tends to corrupt.
demodemo: Pinochet, Cambodia. Hitler apotheosis of capitalism.
womack: EasyCoder: lol @ womack, I wrote the original Wikipedia article on the 1973 Chile coup, and all agreed it was a masterpiece of objective prose.
demodemo: true face
womack: Was Ed JK here or does he wish to say on re this remarkable claim?
EasyCoder: Sorry, womack, by "wrote" I should have said "edited a truly objective and neutral version".
EasyCoder: When some politician says he "built" the Panama Canal, he's not implying that he removed even a single shovelful of dirt. Did Al Gore take the iniative in creating the Internet?
EasyCoder: No, he just passed some vaguely supportive legislation: he didn't come up with the idea or do any of the planning or engineering.
EasyCoder: But let's not make this about me: that merely shows your lack of confidence. Please use facts and logic to advance your viewpoints.
demodemo: wikipedia generally sponsored globalizers and is not valid encyclopedia
demodemo: history for fun
womack: Ed P now claims to have been the chief WIKI editor for the original Chilean coup article?
EasyCoder: Don't you oppose mass murder? And isn't someone who murders 10 times as many or 1,000 times as many, that much worse?
womack: Yes to these last 2 Q's
EasyCoder: You've looked up the edit history; answer the question for yourself. I claim no more credit than what the history of the article shows.
EasyCoder: I happen to have a knack for understanding both sides of a controversy.
womack: LOL
EasyCoder: On the mass murder question, the tendency of the left is to magnify human rights violations by (say) America and its allies, while downplaying far worse crimes of the left.
womack: Ed getting the wrong NSA feed for my keyboard action?
womack: Ed rather lost in the vague fog of "right" & "left"?
Bloke: I would advise all sensible people to censor EasyCraphead and move on. Life is way short to waste time 'debating' such imbeciles
Bloke: I should know
EasyCoder: I understand the left's complaints about democracy and the free market. I only wish they would appreciate the problems caused by totalitarian Communist dictatorships and socialism.
womack: Whoa, Bloke
Bloke: Spent enough years doing it
womack: Bloke wants to give Ed H9?
Bloke: Right-wing American ignoramii
womack: Dum spiro spero
Bloke: I wouldn't give him the steam off my pee
EasyCoder: Vivid metaphor
womack: What does Bloke make of Ed's claim to be an active WIKI editor?
Bloke: I'm certainly not going to waste precious time arguing with him
Bloke: No idea
EasyCoder: Oh, I dropped out of active editing several years ago.
Bloke: But seems unlikely
EasyCoder: To prove my identity, I need only update my Wikipedia user page
womack: But Bloke, this here convo can be a permanent record, as well as a public one.
Bloke: 40 million out on the number killed by Stalin does not seem a good start
EasyCoder: Oh, did I exaggerate that? Sorry
EasyCoder: I must have been thinking of total USSR mass murders
Bloke: I mean no-one disputes that Stalin killed millions but the difference between 20 million and 60 million is somewhat important
EasyCoder: Let's go easy on Stalin and spread the blame around to the other mass murdering dictators.
womack: Can Ed now document for us his claimed earlier record @ WIKI?
Bloke: I am an active Wiki editor for many years now
EasyCoder: How about the difference between 1 million in Cambodia and 3,000 in Chile? That's a factor of 300
womack: Ed knows the name of Genrikh Jagoda?
Bloke: Me on Wiki >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SmokeyTheCat
Bloke: 100+ new pages
womack: Where's Ed trying to go with Cambodia? USGov under HenKi overthrew Good King Sihanouk & invaded the country --the prequel
EasyCoder: But remember, it's not democracy itself I'm praising (that's only a means to the end). The goal is freedom and prosperity.
ergodicgo: to rousseau dictatorship was a transistional artifice, sometimes necessary to restore order, but historically--once they have the power they won't let go
EasyCoder: I'll take whatever gets us there.
EasyCoder: LOL, in Marxism, the idea is that the dictatorship of the proletariat will "wither away".
womack: Freedom for whom to do what? Ed has heard that USGov holds by far more prisoners than any other on our Planet, rt?
demodemo: Maybe now the main dictator of the planet is the United States? who will overthrow?
womack: Us all?
demodemo: goverment
EasyCoder: Democracy by itself won't solve all social ills, granted.
EasyCoder: We also need good education on values. Telling kids they can do whatever they want just teaches them to be selfish. What are the millions of federal prisoners locked up for?
clam: profits for the private prisons?
womack: When a kabal successfully assassinates your President, your Princess and your reporters like Gary Webb & Michael Hastings, you think U R still in a democracy?
womack: Half of the cons R N 4 dope
RoadHobo: don't you all see? The world has had it's evil from the beginning of human social relationships. It will always exist and there's nothing to be done about it. Just don't be evil yourself and all can be well in your world.
clam: before a democracy can be worth much you need the underpinnings like an independant judiciary and respect for the rul of law
RoadHobo: bickering over which system is less evil is silly
clam: e.g. egypt has 'democracy' but it's not worth a lot...
womack: clam out of date re Egypt
clam: in what way?
womack: Military rule there?
clam: no - he resigned from the military before becoming a candidate
EasyCoder: Despite all the anti-democratic things Obama has done, we still hold regular elections in accordance with our Consitution. When people get tired of being pushed around by him, they'll vote for someone better.
clam: like another Bush ?
wither: uh. what anti democratic things
EasyCoder: @clam, like Reagan
wither: pushed around... my god
demodemo: U.S. citizens touches me when they want to solve all the problems of the world. You would not think that the rest of the world ever wants to solve the problems of the United States?
RoadHobo: Crimes are commited, we know that. The biggest crimes are commited by those with the most power, we know that too. If someone could show me a way to limit the power of people to exploit others I'd love to hear it but there doesn't seem to be a functioning sysem that does that.
EasyCoder: Americans give a greater percentage of their wealth to help foreigners than any other nation on earth.
clam: orly?
demodemo: The same methods that you
womack: Counting the drone expenditure
RoadHobo: I guess you guys just love arguing
womack: Better to argue than merely to quarrel
EasyCoder: Democracy limits the ability of the goverment (i.e., people in the ruling class) to violate everyone else's rights. Democracy does this better than monarchy, dictatorship, or Communism. Is it good enough?
womack: Ed Poor be here in USA?
wither: the government isnt always the prime thing you need to keep in check. rich people are
demodemo: Americans give a greater percentage of their wealth to help foreigners than any other nation on earth. ITS BIG LOL
RoadHobo: It's a beautiful day and this is getting boring. Have fun.
EasyCoder: In the USA, we still have the right to take or leave any job - without having to get government permission.
demodemo: cruise missiles or drones?
EasyCoder: Anyone can leave the country any time, no exit visa needed.
womack: What level security clearance Ed has?
EasyCoder: smirk - that would be telling
clam: Easy - re amount given to help others you could look at this: USA comes in @ #21... http://www.statisticbrain.com/countries-that-give-the-most-in-foreign-aid-statistics/
womack: Hear, hear Clam!
EasyCoder: Before I even click on the link, is that goverment aid only, or does it include private donations?
womack: Ah, Ed counting Jews sending $ to Israel?
EasyCoder: "Countries that give the most," or "Governments that give the most"?
clam: couldnt tell you that - but sweden is 500% of US...
demodemo: You really helped Ukraine now. Civil war is not far off. Glory of American democracy.
clam: it is "%age of GDP"
wither: demo ukraine is on russia.
wither: thats known
womack: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/05/obamas-bloodbath-in-odessa/
womack: wither & Ed in adjacent cubicles?
demodemo: im russian, i know where is ukraine)
EasyCoder: I remember when some talk-show host disputed Ann Coulter's remark about Canada sending men to serve in some war. His rebuttal was that the Canadian *government* hadn't sent any troops, and she was rattled for a moment. Actually, thousands of Canadian citizens went and joined up overseas of their own accord - that was her point, and I think her debate opponent knew it.
wither: um wither and ed are on opposite sides of the american political spectrum
wither: but that doesnt entail blaming america for absolutely everything wrong in the world
EasyCoder: But that is typical of leftists: they just want to win, and they don't care about facts or logic - or even about actual results in the world.
clam: !
EasyCoder: That's why I don't like the left.
wither: ^ see
wither: easy coder is a complete nut
EasyCoder: Now, the right is almost as bad: their selfishness takes another form, though.
wither: not care about logic? fox news
EasyCoder: With nuts you can make peanut butter, which is highly nutritious.
womack: My top personal hero since 1900 = Ho Chi Minh. Will with & Ed declare theirs?
EasyCoder: Even if the right is slightly better (in many cases) than the left, I do not exalt it over the left. A bird with only one wing cannot fly.
womack: loopy
clam: Easy - you just quoted a "Fact" about the US giving more than anyone else. I showed you stat's to prove you wrong, yet you thing it's the left that dont care about truth/facts?
ergodicgo: ho chi designed the dragon's backbone, the ho chi minh trail--think he played go?
wither: it wouldnt be any kind of soldier thats for sure
clam: what kind of blinkers are you wearing?
womack: I doubt that Ho played our game
womack: or Mao either but Chen Yi did
Warfreak2: don't bother engaging in debate with easycoder
EasyCoder: No developed country approaches American giving. For example, in 1995 (the most recent year for which data are available), Americans gave, per capita, three and a half times as much to causes and charities as the French, seven times as much as the Germans, and 14 times as much as the Italians.
EasyCoder: http://www.american.com/archive/2008/march-april-magazine-contents/a-nation-of-givers
EasyCoder: It depends on what you're measuring. Goverment giving foreign aid, or private citizens giving to charity.
womack: 19 yr delay w data?
wither: who the hell goes to a site called the "american enterprise institute"
wither: it even sounds like a propaganda machine
EasyCoder: Your prejudice against free enterprise is showing.
wither: my prejudice against biased reporting on anything
womack: "free enterprise" a la Enron & Lockheed Martin
EasyCoder: Do you want someone else telling you that your prospective employer isn't allowed to pay you as much as you and he have agreed on?
Warfreak2: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia:Ed_Poor
wither: it depends. am i a CEO?
EasyCoder: Thanks, warf. That's the mother lode of leftist rants.
EasyCoder: The fact is that self-described “conservatives” in America are more likely to give—and give more money—than self-described “liberals.” In the year 2000, households headed by a conservative gave, on average, 30 percent more dollars to charity than households headed by a liberal. And this discrepancy in monetary donations is not simply an artifact of income differences. On the contrary, liberal families in these data earned an average of 6 percent more per year than conservative families.
EasyCoder: But the real problem is not ideology; it's not about left vs. right.
EasyCoder: Human selfishness is the real culprit.
wither: first i wonder if those numbers included religious or political organizations
EasyCoder: We all agree here that to take advantage of another for my own benefit is wrong, don't we?
wither: for instance, mitt romney might give 10% of his income to the mormon church. which in my mind isnt doing much
EasyCoder: Anyone here still trying to justify chattel slavery?
womack: warf came through w some data there
womack: Ed has someone for sale?
EasyCoder: How many people here think a goverment is justified in keeping its citizens from emigrating? Sinking their canoes and rowboats in the Gulf of Mexico?
womack: Hear, hear Clam!
EasyCoder: Before I even click on the link, is that goverment aid only, or does it include private donations?
womack: Ah, Ed counting Jews sending $ to Israel?
EasyCoder: "Countries that give the most," or "Governments that give the most"?
clam: couldnt tell you that - but sweden is 500% of US...
demodemo: You really helped Ukraine now. Civil war is not far off. Glory of American democracy.
clam: it is "%age of GDP"
wither: demo ukraine is on russia.
wither: thats known
womack: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/05/obamas-bloodbath-in-odessa/
womack: wither & Ed in adjacent cubicles?
demodemo: im russian, i know where is ukraine)
EasyCoder: I remember when some talk-show host disputed Ann Coulter's remark about Canada sending men to serve in some war. His rebuttal was that the Canadian *government* hadn't sent any troops, and she was rattled for a moment. Actually, thousands of Canadian citizens went and joined up overseas of their own accord - that was her point, and I think her debate opponent knew it.
wither: um wither and ed are on opposite sides of the american political spectrum
wither: but that doesnt entail blaming america for absolutely everything wrong in the world
EasyCoder: But that is typical of leftists: they just want to win, and they don't care about facts or logic - or even about actual results in the world.
clam: !
EasyCoder: That's why I don't like the left.
wither: ^ see
wither: easy coder is a complete nut
EasyCoder: Now, the right is almost as bad: their selfishness takes another form, though.
wither: not care about logic? fox news
EasyCoder: With nuts you can make peanut butter, which is highly nutritious.
womack: My top personal hero since 1900 = Ho Chi Minh. Will with & Ed declare theirs?
EasyCoder: Even if the right is slightly better (in many cases) than the left, I do not exalt it over the left. A bird with only one wing cannot fly.
womack: loopy
clam: Easy - you just quoted a "Fact" about the US giving more than anyone else. I showed you stat's to prove you wrong, yet you thing it's the left that dont care about truth/facts?
ergodicgo: ho chi designed the dragon's backbone, the ho chi minh trail--think he played go?
wither: it wouldnt be any kind of soldier thats for sure
clam: what kind of blinkers are you wearing?
womack: I doubt that Ho played our game
womack: or Mao either but Chen Yi did
Warfreak2: don't bother engaging in debate with easycoder
EasyCoder: No developed country approaches American giving. For example, in 1995 (the most recent year for which data are available), Americans gave, per capita, three and a half times as much to causes and charities as the French, seven times as much as the Germans, and 14 times as much as the Italians.
EasyCoder: http://www.american.com/archive/2008/march-april-magazine-contents/a-nation-of-givers
EasyCoder: It depends on what you're measuring. Goverment giving foreign aid, or private citizens giving to charity.
womack: 19 yr delay w data?
wither: who the hell goes to a site called the "american enterprise institute"
wither: it even sounds like a propaganda machine
EasyCoder: Your prejudice against free enterprise is showing.
wither: my prejudice against biased reporting on anything
womack: "free enterprise" a la Enron & Lockheed Martin
EasyCoder: Do you want someone else telling you that your prospective employer isn't allowed to pay you as much as you and he have agreed on?
Warfreak2: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia:Ed_Poor
wither: it depends. am i a CEO?
EasyCoder: Thanks, warf. That's the mother lode of leftist rants.
EasyCoder: The fact is that self-described “conservatives” in America are more likely to give—and give more money—than self-described “liberals.” In the year 2000, households headed by a conservative gave, on average, 30 percent more dollars to charity than households headed by a liberal. And this discrepancy in monetary donations is not simply an artifact of income differences. On the contrary, liberal families in these data earned an average of 6 percent more per year than conservative families.
EasyCoder: But the real problem is not ideology; it's not about left vs. right.
EasyCoder: Human selfishness is the real culprit.
wither: first i wonder if those numbers included religious or political organizations
EasyCoder: We all agree here that to take advantage of another for my own benefit is wrong, don't we?
wither: for instance, mitt romney might give 10% of his income to the mormon church. which in my mind isnt doing much
EasyCoder: Anyone here still trying to justify chattel slavery?
womack: warf came through w some data there
womack: Ed has someone for sale?
EasyCoder: How many people here think a goverment is justified in keeping its citizens from emigrating? Sinking their canoes and rowboats in the Gulf of Mexico?
EasyCoder: If the system doesn't work well, try to fix it.
EasyCoder: Or try to make a new system.
EasyCoder: But either way, you'll need unselfish people to make it work.
womack: Both wither & Ed has so far kept silent re naming their heroes
EasyCoder: I place principles above personalities.
womack: dodge
EasyCoder: I refuse to be drawn into factionalism: let's be less concerned with WHO is right than with WHAT is right.
womack: caps lock
EasyCoder: Yes, I dodge any attempt to divert my from my principles.
womack: )
womack: Does Ed have a book to recommend to us?
EasyCoder: We need to do what is right. If an alliance with some *person* helps us do that (even temporarily), go ahead any form an alliance. But don't confuse the ends with the means.
womack: Positive grammar saves time. Try skipping the "not's" ?
EasyCoder: Exposition of the Unification Principle (1996) or "Explaining Unification Thought"
womack: noted
EasyCoder: Don't let's avoid not being against what doesn't hurt others
womack: Has Ed a key passaeg handy therefrom?
womack: Ed all tied up in knots by prefernce
EasyCoder: hmm, something about giving and receiving, maybe?
EasyCoder: Sorry, womack, I'm not good at summarizing.
womack: only asking
EasyCoder: I don't think there's an easy way out of the problems we are facing.
EasyCoder: No simple formula
EasyCoder: No hero
EasyCoder: No one right side
womack: My simple formula = justice, peace, freedom & the commonwealth -- in that order
EasyCoder: It takes two wings for a bird to fly
womack: we've seen that gull before
EasyCoder: Both the left and right wings have some valid points and concerns.
EasyCoder: Neither side is going to provide The Solution
ergodicgo: its a contemplative philosophic dilemma, do i strive for the good of others or myself..
stumped: Theres a solution ?
EasyCoder: Why not both, ergodicgo?
womack: To take justice first: Since 1990 the USGov has murdered ~12,000,000 [twelve million] victims in the Middle East alone.
EasyCoder: Unification Thought speaks of the "whole purpose" which includes the self purpose.
ergodicgo: well if ayn rand was right i should first think of myself,
EasyCoder: Don't simply be selfish.
womack: The USGov destruction of Iraq was fronted by lies from the beginning
EasyCoder: But don't think that "pure altruism" is possible or even desirable: we need a balance.
ergodicgo: and if others don't like it then to bad, the theorem of rational self-interest
EasyCoder: Thinking of yourself is okay for 2-year-olds.
EasyCoder: But rational self-interest would eventually contemplate the Action of Giving and Receiving with others
clam: warfreak - are you saying Easycoder is Ed Poor?
EasyCoder: duh, we already established that
clam: oh - i was looking at some of the likns and references
Warfreak2: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia:Ed_Poor
wither: it depends. am i a CEO?
EasyCoder: Thanks, warf. That's the mother lode of leftist rants.
EasyCoder: The fact is that self-described “conservatives” in America are more likely to give—and give more money—than self-described “liberals.” In the year 2000, households headed by a conservative gave, on average, 30 percent more dollars to charity than households headed by a liberal. And this discrepancy in monetary donations is not simply an artifact of income differences. On the contrary, liberal families in these data earned an average of 6 percent more per year than conservative families.
EasyCoder: But the real problem is not ideology; it's not about left vs. right.
EasyCoder: Human selfishness is the real culprit.
wither: first i wonder if those numbers included religious or political organizations
EasyCoder: We all agree here that to take advantage of another for my own benefit is wrong, don't we?
wither: for instance, mitt romney might give 10% of his income to the mormon church. which in my mind isnt doing much
EasyCoder: Anyone here still trying to justify chattel slavery?
womack: warf came through w some data there
womack: Ed has someone for sale?
EasyCoder: How many people here think a goverment is justified in keeping its citizens from emigrating? Sinking their canoes and rowboats in the Gulf of Mexico?
EasyCoder: If the system doesn't work well, try to fix it.
EasyCoder: Or try to make a new system.
EasyCoder: But either way, you'll need unselfish people to make it work.
womack: Both wither & Ed has so far kept silent re naming their heroes
EasyCoder: I place principles above personalities.
womack: dodge
EasyCoder: I refuse to be drawn into factionalism: let's be less concerned with WHO is right than with WHAT is right.
womack: caps lock
EasyCoder: Yes, I dodge any attempt to divert my from my principles.
womack: )
womack: Does Ed have a book to recommend to us?
EasyCoder: We need to do what is right. If an alliance with some *person* helps us do that (even temporarily), go ahead any form an alliance. But don't confuse the ends with the means.
womack: Positive grammar saves time. Try skipping the "not's" ?
EasyCoder: Exposition of the Unification Principle (1996) or "Explaining Unification Thought"
womack: noted
EasyCoder: Don't let's avoid not being against what doesn't hurt others
womack: Has Ed a key passaeg handy therefrom?
womack: Ed all tied up in knots by prefernce
EasyCoder: hmm, something about giving and receiving, maybe?
EasyCoder: Sorry, womack, I'm not good at summarizing.
womack: only asking
EasyCoder: I don't think there's an easy way out of the problems we are facing.
EasyCoder: No simple formula
EasyCoder: No hero
EasyCoder: No one right side
womack: My simple formula = justice, peace, freedom & the commonwealth -- in that order
EasyCoder: It takes two wings for a bird to fly
womack: we've seen that gull before
EasyCoder: Both the left and right wings have some valid points and concerns.
EasyCoder: Neither side is going to provide The Solution
ergodicgo: its a contemplative philosophic dilemma, do i strive for the good of others or myself..
stumped: Theres a solution ?
EasyCoder: Why not both, ergodicgo?
womack: To take justice first: Since 1990 the USGov has murdered ~12,000,000 [twelve million] victims in the Middle East alone.
EasyCoder: Unification Thought speaks of the "whole purpose" which includes the self purpose.
ergodicgo: well if ayn rand was right i should first think of myself,
EasyCoder: Don't simply be selfish.
womack: The USGov destruction of Iraq was fronted by lies from the beginning
EasyCoder: But don't think that "pure altruism" is possible or even desirable: we need a balance.
ergodicgo: and if others don't like it then to bad, the theorem of rational self-interest
EasyCoder: Thinking of yourself is okay for 2-year-olds.
EasyCoder: But rational self-interest would eventually contemplate the Action of Giving and Receiving with others
clam: warfreak - are you saying Easycoder is Ed Poor?
EasyCoder: duh, we already established that
clam: oh - i was looking at some of the likns and references
clam: now it makes sense
EasyCoder: Leftists at Wikipedia seem to think I'm biased towards conservatism, because I like articles to include a balance of leftist and right-wing POV.
EasyCoder: On several topics, the left doesn't even want the right's views described at all
womack: Evidently Ed prefers to bore the audience to death with abstract blather about "principles" while ignoring major facts of life & death on our Planet?
EasyCoder: Sorry if I'm boring you. What am I ignoring, again?
womack: womack: The USGov destruction of Iraq was fronted by lies from the beginning
EasyCoder: It's destroyed, huh?
omggg: following the Golden Rule (One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.) would go a long way in the right direction IMO
stumped: Day off for everyone !
womack: When confronted by uncomfortable facts, Ed plays ostrich. "IDK"
stumped: "Anyone not the enemy of my enemy is my enemy"
womack: ) stumped does SonnaBush
EasyCoder: Actually, I take in new facts better than the average person.
EasyCoder: You guys still haven't commented on Cambodia vs. Chile
EasyCoder: I guess you're all just pro-Hispanic and anti-Asian
EasyCoder: Those little slanteyed gooks aren't even real people, eh?
womack: BTW I may get around to adding this convo to http://tinyurl.com/l2bu33s rec.games.go › "Current KGS Convo"
womack: Asked & answered: womack: Where's Ed trying to go with Cambodia? USGov under HenKi overthrew Good King Sihanouk & invaded the country --the prequel
womack: Me playing now
ergodicgo: still EC didn't pinochet whack a few of his political enemies? (and stalin of course quite of few more of his)
EasyCoder: Even assuming Pinochet "murdered" peaceful opponents, what about Cambodia's genocide of over 1,000,000 people? Why do leftists keep magnifying human rights abuses by their opponents?
EasyCoder: By what standard are we measuring the degree of wrongness?
EasyCoder: How many sub-Saharan Africans have died of malaria, because leftist environmentalists won't allow DDT to be sprayed on walls inside huts to stop mosquitoes?
EasyCoder: Much of the scientific and engineering marvels of the modern world emerged from the democratic West.
ergodicgo: most all! i agree!
EasyCoder: I'll support any meants to an end, provided it actually gets us there.
EasyCoder: But as Lincoln said, we have the right to alter or abolish it otherwise.
EasyCoder: Take gun control: if certain restrictions on firearms possession can save innocent lives, I'm all for 'em - despite my craving to exercise my Second Amendment rights.
ergodicgo: we do in the US, but in many other countries power is changed by blood
EasyCoder: But if "gun control" turns out to increase violent crime, then we have to rethink our strategy.
ergodicgo: power flows from the end of rifle --Mao
EasyCoder: But free enterprise - with no goverment coercing us to buy or sell at certain prices, or to hire or work at certain wage rates - has provided more economic prosperity
EasyCoder: Mao's policies kept people poor
ergodicgo: yes ...the "unseen hand" of Adam Smith, where there is a need
omggg: many sub-Saharan Africans die from Malaria because lefties banned DDT seem quite a simplistic analysis. There are many reasons for Malaria killing people in those countries
ergodicgo: free markets find a way
EasyCoder: The lefties didn't create the malaria
EasyCoder: But they are responsible for at least one million deaths per year.
EasyCoder: DDT could save that many lives
omggg: so could education, clean water, better governments etc
EasyCoder: I do not blame US/European leftists alone. The governments of the countries bear responsibility also.
omggg: I'm glad you clarified that
EasyCoder: But when faced between the choice of (1) security and prosperity for everyone in my country or (2) fabulous wealth for my family and all our cronies, how many people can honestly say they'll pick the first choice?
[missing?]
EasyCoder: No one right side
womack: My simple formula = justice, peace, freedom & the commonwealth -- in that order
EasyCoder: It takes two wings for a bird to fly
womack: we've seen that gull before
EasyCoder: Both the left and right wings have some valid points and concerns.
EasyCoder: Neither side is going to provide The Solution
ergodicgo: its a contemplative philosophic dilemma, do i strive for the good of others or myself..
stumped: Theres a solution ?
EasyCoder: Why not both, ergodicgo?
womack: To take justice first: Since 1990 the USGov has murdered ~12,000,000 [twelve million] victims in the Middle East alone.
EasyCoder: Unification Thought speaks of the "whole purpose" which includes the self purpose.
ergodicgo: well if ayn rand was right i should first think of myself,
EasyCoder: Don't simply be selfish.
womack: The USGov destruction of Iraq was fronted by lies from the beginning
EasyCoder: But don't think that "pure altruism" is possible or even desirable: we need a balance.
ergodicgo: and if others don't like it then to bad, the theorem of rational self-interest
EasyCoder: Thinking of yourself is okay for 2-year-olds.
EasyCoder: But rational self-interest would eventually contemplate the Action of Giving and Receiving with others
clam: warfreak - are you saying Easycoder is Ed Poor?
EasyCoder: duh, we already established that
clam: oh - i was looking at some of the likns and references
clam: now it makes sense
EasyCoder: Leftists at Wikipedia seem to think I'm biased towards conservatism, because I like articles to include a balance of leftist and right-wing POV.
EasyCoder: On several topics, the left doesn't even want the right's views described at all
womack: Evidently Ed prefers to bore the audience to death with abstract blather about "principles" while ignoring major facts of life & death on our Planet?
EasyCoder: Sorry if I'm boring you. What am I ignoring, again?
womack: womack: The USGov destruction of Iraq was fronted by lies from the beginning
EasyCoder: It's destroyed, huh?
omggg: following the Golden Rule (One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.) would go a long way in the right direction IMO
stumped: Day off for everyone !
womack: When confronted by uncomfortable facts, Ed plays ostrich. "IDK"
stumped: "Anyone not the enemy of my enemy is my enemy"
womack: ) stumped does SonnaBush
EasyCoder: Actually, I take in new facts better than the average person.
EasyCoder: You guys still haven't commented on Cambodia vs. Chile
EasyCoder: I guess you're all just pro-Hispanic and anti-Asian
EasyCoder: Those little slanteyed gooks aren't even real people, eh?
womack: BTW I may get around to adding this convo to http://tinyurl.com/l2bu33s rec.games.go › "Current KGS Convo"
womack: Asked & answered: womack: Where's Ed trying to go with Cambodia? USGov under HenKi overthrew Good King Sihanouk & invaded the country --the prequel
womack: Me playing now
ergodicgo: still EC didn't pinochet whack a few of his political enemies? (and stalin of course quite of few more of his)
EasyCoder: Even assuming Pinochet "murdered" peaceful opponents, what about Cambodia's genocide of over 1,000,000 people? Why do leftists keep magnifying human rights abuses by their opponents?
EasyCoder: By what standard are we measuring the degree of wrongness?
EasyCoder: How many sub-Saharan Africans have died of malaria, because leftist environmentalists won't allow DDT to be sprayed on walls inside huts to stop mosquitoes?
EasyCoder: Much of the scientific and engineering marvels of the modern world emerged from the democratic West.
ergodicgo: most all! i agree!
EasyCoder: I'll support any meants to an end, provided it actually gets us there.
EasyCoder: But as Lincoln said, we have the right to alter or abolish it otherwise.
EasyCoder: Take gun control: if certain restrictions on firearms possession can save innocent lives, I'm all for 'em - despite my craving to exercise my Second Amendment rights.
ergodicgo: we do in the US, but in many other countries power is changed by blood
EasyCoder: But if "gun control" turns out to increase violent crime, then we have to rethink our strategy.
ergodicgo: power flows from the end of rifle --Mao
EasyCoder: But free enterprise - with no goverment coercing us to buy or sell at certain prices, or to hire or work at certain wage rates - has provided more economic prosperity
EasyCoder: Mao's policies kept people poor
ergodicgo: yes ...the "unseen hand" of Adam Smith, where there is a need
omggg: many sub-Saharan Africans die from Malaria because lefties banned DDT seem quite a simplistic analysis. There are many reasons for Malaria killing people in those countries
ergodicgo: free markets find a way
EasyCoder: The lefties didn't create the malaria
EasyCoder: But they are responsible for at least one million deaths per year.
EasyCoder: DDT could save that many lives
omggg: so could education, clean water, better governments etc
EasyCoder: I do not blame US/European leftists alone. The governments of the countries bear responsibility also.
omggg: I'm glad you clarified that
EasyCoder: But when faced between the choice of (1) security and prosperity for everyone in my country or (2) fabulous wealth for my family and all our cronies, how many people can honestly say they'll pick the first choice?
EasyCoder: In politics, nothing is more common than to blame a single factor (or faction) for "all" the problems.
EasyCoder: I'm an engineer. I have to work out solutions that take all factors into account.
stumped: As an engineer, you should know very well that such solutions doesnt exist.
EasyCoder: You can't solve all problems, every time - granted.
EasyCoder: But still many problems can be solved.
ergodicgo: a society could be engineered i suppose, but wouldn't it be like central planning? or plato's republic
EasyCoder: Some central planning is useful. Obama pointed out that the US interstate highway system had federal involvement.
ergodicgo: but abhorred by the champions of the free market
EasyCoder: AT&T created the long-distance phone system, which even extended to some Caribbean countries
EasyCoder: The free market is not a panacea.
EasyCoder: The invisible hand does not solve all problems.
ergodicgo: no, no, has its abuses for sure
EasyCoder: Stop thinking it's either Left or Right - a bird cannot fly without two wings.
EasyCoder: But we need a head.
EasyCoder: Could a private firm have developed the atomic bomb quickly enough to win the Second World War? I think the US government was wise to step in and get a bunch of physicists together
EasyCoder: But single payer health insurance doesn't look like such a good idea.
ergodicgo: i'd prefer a national system to having to but from people i do not trust
ergodicgo: *buy
EasyCoder: Goverment can easily cover up problems or even create them. It took Feynmann's individual initiative to uncover the cause of the Challenger Disaster, with NASA's thousands involved in a cover-up.
EasyCoder: I'd prefer to buy from someone who offers what I want, to having the goverment fine or jail me (or the company head).
EasyCoder: Abuses of the left have been well known since the French Revolution.
EasyCoder: Democracy is vastly better.
EasyCoder: But let's not stop there.
EasyCoder: The problem with a national health-insurance system is that it requires you to buy from people you don't trust.
EasyCoder: Why not provide Medicaid to anyone who says they can't find private health insurance?
EasyCoder: Anyway, I gotta go to work: I refuse to live on welfare, i.e., your tax dollars supporting me in my lethargy.
ergodicgo: but its the mix....govt has the power to tax for the "general welfare"
ergodicgo: let them do it if it is the will of our democracy...
ergodicgo: why don't they require people to buy what im selling?
EasyCoder: lol
EasyCoder: Just because a majority (or plurality) vote for something, that doesn't mean it is "good".
EasyCoder: Allende got 30% to 40% of the votes in 1973. That doesn't mean he was planning a "democratic" goverment.
EasyCoder: Even Adolf Hitler was "democratically" elected.
EasyCoder: by.
EasyCoder: bye
ergodicgo: cya thanks for your ideas
Falcon89: good morning, all
------------------------------------------------
~15:42 hrz.
========================================
Post by Hal Womack 3-danA little May Day morning in the EGR 20140501
=======================
GengYang: life
Warfreak2: no it isn't.
GengYang: in some fields like trading it is --- you make money by taking money from others
Warfreak2: if a million monkeys with a million monkey stockbrokers chose their stocks randomly, a few of them would make millions, and most of them would beat daytraders
Warfreak2: investing is not a zero-sum game
Warfreak2: here's how it works
Warfreak2: joe's burger joint is doing ok, he wants to run a second store, but doesn't have the capital to buy another store
moonman: option is zero sum game.
Warfreak2: you invest in his company, you buy him another location in exchange for a good share of the profits
moonman: stocks are not.
Warfreak2: he opens his other store, he profits from running two stores, and later three, and both of you are much better off than when you started
moonman: so elementry
Warfreak2: as are the customers, who clearly prefer that he is running burger joints for them to eat in, otherwise they wouldn't voluntarily spend money there
Warfreak2: life is not zero sum
moonman: at the end it is... you die
womack: US Economy Is A House Of Cards -- Paul Craig Roberts (4/30/2014) http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/04/30/us-economy-house-cards-paul-craig-roberts/
stumped: But you started not alive; the rest is a bonus
mabblebrox: mmm ritalin
mabblebrox: I wish it lasted longer than an hour though
moonman: options are zero sum game...
womack: synthetic junk
Warfreak2: no, they aren't
moonman: and skills game too.
mabblebrox: i'm binging on klonopin today
Warfreak2: joe's burger joint has to keep buying meat to make burgers out of
mabblebrox: ritalin for a boost
moonman: i prefer options.. i make money in options but not good with stocks.
Warfreak2: but the price of meat keeps changing, with the season and all sorts of other factors like natural disasters
Warfreak2: he has to keep changing his prices and the customers aren't happy about it
moonman: you eat too much bugers.
Warfreak2: so he buys call options on meat, which allow him to guarantee a maximum price that he will have to buy meat at for the next year
moonman: how come you are 5d? you didn't win any
Warfreak2: he can fix his prices and publish them in his promotional material, and not have to keep sending out new leaflets every time the prices change
mabblebrox: or he could sell organic turnips
mabblebrox: why a burger stand?
mabblebrox: there must be healthier business models
stumped: But how do you know Joe is doing a good job with your money?
mabblebrox: i'm not business minded
moonman: these kgs ratings are totally unreliable
Warfreak2: yes, i didn't win anything except 2/3 ranked games in the last 6 months
womack: In 2012 retail value of U.S. beef production was $85 billion. U.S. war spending: In calendar year 2012, U.S. military spending (publicly admitted) declined from $711 billion to $668 billion. Sources available.
Warfreak2: and the british championship twice
Warfreak2: but i'm not really a dan player at all
moonman: in your small town?
Warfreak2: yes, my small town of britain
BlindTaub: military spending declined? hope yet for usa
Warfreak2: i hope "declined" in this sense means "rejected"
moonman: u afraid you might get ranked lower? or u come here for chat only?
womack: Slight panic over threat of economic collapse. Buzz word = "sequestration".
Warfreak2: are you 11 years old?
Warfreak2: why are they letting 11 year olds play with options
mabblebrox: womack is like 80
moonman: i think you are like 1d
womack: -11
moonman: but, u just win with time twice
moonman: that's tricky
mabblebrox: can somebody ask warfreak to un-censor me?
womack: Play, master moonman? Harsh mistress?
moonman: i hope i can win twice with time and ranked 5d.
moonman: mabblebrox want to be uncensored by warfreak
Warfreak2: sadly, some people never reach their 12th birthday
moonman: he said so..
BlindTaub: prepare for request to be denied
mabblebrox: bleh
BlindTaub: i can feel it, i'm prognosticating like a pro here
mabblebrox: read my poetry, it's much more mature than my kibitzing
moonman: i don't play with 1k, because that means a handy game.
moonman: i try not to play a handy game in kgs
womack: "roughly 1.2 billion people live on less than $1.25/day (USD)--the definition of "extreme global poverty."'
moonman: but in real life i would play
BlindTaub: surely womack this measure is unhelpful or even disingenuous as your listener does not know the cost of living in the places these people live
mabblebrox: womack why weren't you trolling for awhile
Warfreak2: who's listening to womack? didn't their mother teach them better
womack: http://onedayswages.org/about/what-extreme-global-poverty
mabblebrox: womac is an againg hippy
womack: Warf quite the coward in debate
BlindTaub: i reckon access to free healthcare is the best metric of which country is third world and which isn't
moonman: i live with less than 1.25 an hour
Warfreak2: womack is a no-holds-barred full-on jews-did-9/11 fruitcake
Warfreak2: fyi
womack: 4 de mabblemob "trolling" means uttering a truth embarrassing to the Sulzbergerz
BlindTaub: well somebody did 9/11 and they sure weren't iraqi or afghanistani
womack: Specifically KinkHenKi & Aerial Shaboom
BlindTaub: operation northwoods part 2 is not so far-fetched once you read how much work went into part 1
womack: I also believe that SOTSies [SonsOf The Stern gang] assassinated Lord Moyne & Count Folke Bernadotte, as well as Jack, of course.
womack: Whereas warf = a half-wit regurgitator of Official Myth re 9/11 Stunt?
Warfreak2: he also thinks the kgs admins are part of the same jewish conspiracy
Warfreak2: and he thinks he is 4 dan
womack: Documentation re Kabal GS easily available on "rec.games.go"
Warfreak2: 3 dan, sorry
womack: 3d was my personal best, as documented in 2000 by AGA
mabblebrox: mmmm klony and ritalin
womack: Organic coca products vs Big Pharma & the narx
mabblebrox: organic cocaine?
mabblebrox: taht's a tough one
womack: same-O as white sugar
womack: only different plant
mabblebrox: except for the addiction part
womack: sugar much more deadly re addiction, yes
mabblebrox: yes, white sugar kills
womack: but WS kills much more slowly than hollow points, of which latter the US Secret Police just bought ~2 billion rounds.
tomicus: we have secret police? O_o
BlindTaub: more secret than the CIA?
womack: ?"We", White Man?
BlindTaub: isn't it just part of the duties of your armed forced to do all the secret police stuff, kidnapping, torturing, detaining illegally, etc
womack: ~16 Federally admitted Se Po agencies + swarms of unaccountable contractors
womack: Ah, the supposed "duty" of mass murder, eh? [07:42]