Discussion:
Teaching game guides or tips?
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Oregonian Haruspex
2014-10-31 09:36:08 UTC
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My wife and I have been playing go for a while now, but as I read books
and watch games and otherwise study the game a lot more than she does I
have progressed faster than she has. I was wondering if anybody had
any tips to make the game more enjoyable for her? I would especially
like to know the theory and practice of the teaching game, and how this
can help a person advance their skill level.

I am not very strong by most standards I'm sure but I am much stronger
than her.

Thanks a lot.
Silvano
2014-10-31 09:45:11 UTC
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Post by Oregonian Haruspex
My wife and I have been playing go for a while now, but as I
read books and watch games and otherwise study the game a
lot more than she does I have progressed faster than she
has. I was wondering if anybody had any tips to make the
game more enjoyable for her? I would especially like to
know the theory and practice of the teaching game, and how
this can help a person advance their skill level.
I am not very strong by most standards I'm sure but I am
much stronger than her.
Thanks a lot.
More enjoyable? Give handicaps!
If you are really much stronger than her and play on the
19x19 board, let her play black and put 6 stones first on
all 4-4 points and the 4-10 points on the left and the right
side. Then you start, play to the end and see what happens.
- You win by a wide margin. Next game with 7 stones, adding
a stone on the 10-10 point smack in the middle of the board.
Next steps: 8 stones (all 4-4 and all 4-10 points) and 9
stones (8 stones and 10-10 point).
- She wins by a wide margin. Next game with 5 stones, adding
a stone on the 10-10 point smack in the middle of the board,
but without the stones on the 4-10 points. Next steps: 4
stones (all 4-4 points), 3 stones (one corner empty) and 2
stones (two diagonal corners empty).
- You win or she wins by plus/minus 10 to 20 points. Keep
using that handicap until the balance tilts in either direction.
Robert Jasiek
2014-10-31 12:40:30 UTC
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Post by Oregonian Haruspex
I was wondering if anybody had
any tips to make the game more enjoyable for her?
Joy to play go can be rather independent of playing strength and
mostly is very subjective. The following presumes that she has a good
degree of subjective joy.

Winning can be more fun than losing, or at least winning ca. 50% of
the games can be more fun than winning less than 20%. Since currently
you are stronger, the winning-related fun aspect means that currently
she should improve faster than you. You decide whether you want to
improve fast quickly regardless of her possibly relatively slower
improvement.

In order to make her improve while having fun, she must have the
desire to learn, consider learning fun or consider the result of
learning (hopefully greater playing strength) fun.

Alternative: she visits clubs or servers and plays part of her games
against equally strong (eh, weak) opponents.
Post by Oregonian Haruspex
I would especially
like to know the theory and practice of the teaching game, and how this
can help a person advance their skill level.
Teaching (and in particular teaching games) is one way to improve.
Other ways are books or playing against different opponents and
learning from one's mistakes while doing so. If you want to know about
suitable books, ask.

Teaching games can be a) even games with comments afterwards (not
during the game if you play her because you would be playing her game
and that is the least fun; teaching game with comments during the game
can make sense when a much stronger formal teacher teaches a pupil in
special, paid lessons and the pupil expects to learn much rather than
having fun during the lessons), b) handicap games with compensation
points, c) handicap games with handicap stones. (b) and (c) can also
have comments / discussion afterwards.

In order to teach well, you must know well what you are teaching. If
you don't, then acquire knowledge from books etc. If you both learn
from the same books, there is a chance that she overcomes the strength
difference. There is, however, no guarantee. If your learning
capabilty is better than hers, she can hardly keep up with your
improvement speed.

Just being married does not necessarily give two players equal
abilities for a particular activity. If your go learning skill should
be better, how about balancing it by letting her teach you something
else at which she is better?
Post by Oregonian Haruspex
I am much stronger than her.
Nevertheless, it could happen that she becomes much stronger than you
(if she wants to).
Oregonian Haruspex
2014-11-03 22:36:43 UTC
Permalink
On 2014-10-31 12:40:30 +0000, Robert Jasiek said:

We have started to play games with much bigger handicaps and she seems
to be winning more often. I try not to nag her about her playing style
too much, but the three things I have been trying to suggest are to
play a bit looser (as she likes to build solid walls every time), to
try to get more toward the outside because "one wall's already built
for you" and to maybe concentrate a bit less on responding to every
move I make by placing an adjacent stone, and instead think more about
surrounding territory.
Post by Robert Jasiek
Post by Oregonian Haruspex
I am much stronger than her.
Nevertheless, it could happen that she becomes much stronger than you
(if she wants to).
This is quite true. When we got together she didn't know how to play
chess, and now she beats me almost every time. I beat her for the
first time this year last night. I think she could become stronger
than me in go if she played more. That's what I get for marrying a
mathematician!
Robert Jasiek
2014-11-04 09:36:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oregonian Haruspex
I try not to nag her about her playing style
too much, but the three things I have been trying to suggest are to
play a bit looser (as she likes to build solid walls every time), to
try to get more toward the outside because "one wall's already built
for you" and to maybe concentrate a bit less on responding to every
move I make by placing an adjacent stone, and instead think more about
surrounding territory.
Sounds good!
Post by Oregonian Haruspex
When we got together she didn't know how to play
chess, and now she beats me almost every time. I beat her for the
first time this year last night. I think she could become stronger
than me in go if she played more. That's what I get for marrying a
mathematician!
:)

sobriquet
2014-11-01 22:33:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oregonian Haruspex
My wife and I have been playing go for a while now, but as I read books
and watch games and otherwise study the game a lot more than she does I
have progressed faster than she has. I was wondering if anybody had
any tips to make the game more enjoyable for her? I would especially
like to know the theory and practice of the teaching game, and how this
can help a person advance their skill level.
I am not very strong by most standards I'm sure but I am much stronger
than her.
Thanks a lot.
Personally I like tsumego as the most fun way to improve in
go.
I think it's a bit similar to learning a foreign language using
flashcards to memorize words or expressions.

321go.org has a nice free interactive basic course that provides
a bit of theory (free registration required) interspersed with
interactive exercises.

At gochild the theory is lacking, but there is a great selection
of problems you can practice and you can compose custom sets of
problems so you can focus on the tricky ones and shuffle them
every time you go through them.

Because of the way the gochild website randomizes the
orientation, it forces one to memorize the underlying pattern
independent from the particular way a problem is presented.

https://gochild2009.appspot.com/?locale=en_US

Reading books with go theory with tedious and boring diagrams
seems like the painful way to learn go, though gochild
certainly has lots of room for improvement and ideally,
software to assist in learning go should rely on some kind
of feedback mechanism to allow for a more convenient and
optimal learning process, where the learner always feels
challenged and never bored or frustrated because the
material is too easy or too hard.
Robert Jasiek
2014-11-02 10:13:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by sobriquet
Personally I like tsumego as the most fun way to improve in
go.
If so, you better do not neglect other aspects:)
Post by sobriquet
Reading books with go theory with tedious and boring diagrams
Whether it is tedious or boring depends on how the books are written.
Books with relevant theory should be interesting and fun
automatically. I am only bored by boring books.
sobriquet
2014-11-02 17:44:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Jasiek
Post by sobriquet
Personally I like tsumego as the most fun way to improve in
go.
If so, you better do not neglect other aspects:)
Post by sobriquet
Reading books with go theory with tedious and boring diagrams
Whether it is tedious or boring depends on how the books are written.
Books with relevant theory should be interesting and fun
automatically. I am only bored by boring books.
Sure, but books are inherently static. They don't
contain animations and they don't allow for any interactivity. So
a book doesn't adjust to the level of skill of the reader like
a computer program might do.
Richard Mullens
2014-11-02 18:07:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by sobriquet
Post by Robert Jasiek
Post by sobriquet
Personally I like tsumego as the most fun way to improve in
go.
If so, you better do not neglect other aspects:)
Post by sobriquet
Reading books with go theory with tedious and boring diagrams
Whether it is tedious or boring depends on how the books are written.
Books with relevant theory should be interesting and fun
automatically. I am only bored by boring books.
Sure, but books are inherently static. They don't
contain animations and they don't allow for any interactivity. So
a book doesn't adjust to the level of skill of the reader like
a computer program might do.
The solution lies in the adoption of the MOOC concept. We need a defined syllabus, a good teacher, lectures interspersed with problems, points for the solution of problems (to motivate the student), problems without solutions as homework, an online marking scheme, a system whereby students can collaborate, a final exam and a certificate - and all of this needs to be free.

Additionally, we need open source software tools (much of this already exists I think).
Robert Jasiek
2014-11-02 21:57:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by sobriquet
They don't
contain animations and they don't allow for any interactivity. So
a book doesn't adjust to the level of skill of the reader like
a computer program might do.
Interaction itself does not make a player stronger. He needs to know
what to look for. This is so for books, dynamic ebooks or computer
programs.
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